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[ebonlock]

Ok, I don't care if it's totally unrealistic, the return of Lee's physique has made me happier than anything else this season. OMG the abs, the ABS!!!! I'm sure Jamie was pretty happy to get out of the fat suit as well, but not nearly as happy as I was to see him out of it.

Loved Apollo back in CAG status and Starbuck and Tigh's continued downward spiral. When Adama gave them both an ultimatum I was happy to see Kara actually start to wake up a little, though sad to see Tigh continuing down. I just don't see how that character can survive his guilt, and for a second when he picked up the revolver I really thought he was going to take himself out. Poor Saul, he's going to be looking for a way to kill himself in the days to come, but preferably one that allows him to take out a few Cylons along the way.

I'm guessing Helo is going to stay on in Tigh's position and maybe Gaeta will be bumped up a bit (he's certainly trying to get back into everyone's good graces), but where is Dee? She seems to have completely disappeared.

It was a good, somewhat productive weekend. I never get quite as much done as I hope to, but I did a lot more than I'd really expected to so that's good. My one big crafting project is underway, finally. Got some books taken to BookBuyers and got a fair amount in cash and trade for them. Got several story segments posted and so far mostly rave reviews for Scale of Dragon, Tooth of Wolf. One reader even claims to be an "addict", and another thanked me for posting it in pieces so she'd remember to do things like feed her kids and cats. What better praise could a fanfic author hope for? Still one part in chapter 4 to post tonight and then on to chapter 5, which means I should really finish up the damn end notes. Between that and the final edits moonlightnrain just sent me I think tonight's going to be well spoken for. Hopefully I can get back to crafting tomorrow. Hopefully.

Comments

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

As far as I'm concerned it's a small enough issue to warrant a hand wave from me (and on the issue of the bandage on Tigh's eye, I just had a tooth pulled and it's a month now and it's still in the healing process, so I don't think we can judge the time from that), though I still don't like the nonsense they did with Kara in the first 3 eps while you were willing to give that a hand wave. So for me nonsensical (to my mind) character development means a lot more than how quickly Lee lost some weight.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

I didn't see that character development as nonsensical at all, though. Kara's got deep-seated mommy issues and has previously shown that her thick exterior is actually quite thin in places. It made sense that she'd be swayed by this little girl. And it's not out of character, because human beings aren't simple. They may be hard-asses at work and complete softies when it comes to their cats at home, you know?

But having Lee lose weight in 3 weeks (again, I feel I'm being incredibly generous here) seems to boil down to wanting to give his audience something pretty to look at. The fat suit can't really be costing much compared to all the high quality effects in each show.

In other words, I'd rather see him take a character in an unexpected direction and make her more complex and interesting than bend the limits of biology so that he can show come guy shirtless. And what's more, if showing him shirtless was so important, there are believable ways it could have been achieved. Instead it was shallow, lazy, and beneath the level of writing I've come to expect from the show.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

And I would totally disagree, Kara's sudden "maternal instinct" simply showed us a woman who turned her brain off the minute she was presented with a cute child. Nobody with the common sense of a rutabega would have taken anything a Cylon told them at face value. Particularly a Cylon who was obsessively in love with them. The child was in no way the right age to have been Kara's daughter. Kara should have at least had reservations about the kid, waiting until she could take her back to the fleet for DNA tests to confirm the validity of the claim.

Instead she conveniently just doesn't think of any of this and the writers drop in the real mommy at the dramatically appropriate time. If I'm going to call bullshit on anything this season it's that. We've seen traumatized Kara before, but her brains have never turned to mush before, if anything that sort of thing seems to bring out the best in her. To suddenly see her go all a) victim and b) mommy just reinforces every stupid misogynistic fallacy I've ever seen in drama period.

I can't even begin to contemplate that betrayal of the character and the audience in the same landscape as Lee losing some weight. I mean to me that's only slightly more eggregious than having Kara's hair grow like a foot and a half in a year's time. They were using it for a visual short hand in last season's finale, it was no longer necessary this season and they dumped it. No harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

I think the main difference for me is the motivation behind the choices. The motivation for writing Kara as mommy is valid. She had a FUBAR childhood thanks to her own mother and this gave them a chance to explore that further. It makes sense that a child would be a huge trigger for her, no matter the context that child is presented to her. And as a writer it's nice to not make your characters so two dimensional that they don't have a weakness. I still argue that it's nearly two years that have passed since The Farm, if not more, so Kacey is the right age (at least as written, if not the actress who plays her).

But the motivation for dropping Lee's weight in a week is what? I did some research and it turns out Ron Moore has an answer for that in this week's podcast: the writers were lazy. He admits that it's not believable and they had all kinds of plans for Fat Lee, but that during writing meetings the writers were struggling to deal with the issue so they dropped it.

I also noticed that it's been far less than three weeks. When Kara meets Kacey's mom she says "Kacey's been asking to see you for days." Not weeks. So Lee lost a stone in less than a week because the writers were lazy. Stupid. :(

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

And again I have to disagree. If you have Kara bond with the kid, sure, no problem, but just believing entirely that she's her mommy right off the bat? No way.

Let me try to give you an example of why this isn't working for me. Let's take a look at the same character only male, from the original series. Can you honestly tell me that a writer looking at the same character with the same past, the only difference being a Y chromosome would've written that character to have fallen for the 'You're the daddy' line in the same way? No, he would've been skeptical at the least, though probably had several cute scenes with said kid before the truth was revealed.

The difference is she's a woman and therefore they can fall back on ye olde "Maternal Instinct" nonsense. And dude, you're honestly going to tell me you bought into her holding Leoban's hand 'cause she was so upset about Kasey? WTF? If she'd been using it as a plot to get him to lower his guard, fine, sure that's totally Kara. But forgetting herself to that degree with absolutely no payoff from the writers? No, no, no, that just doesn't cut it with me.

Sloppy writing dealing with someone's appearance I can totally swallow, sloppy writing dealing with my favorite character's intellect and personality on a fundamental level? No way.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

I think that you're equating your disagreement with the direction they took the character in with sloppy writing. The fact is a lot of people (not just women) do have maternal and paternal instincts, a lot of people *do* grab someone's, anyone's hand when they are emotionally distraught. I can picture them going that way with the old Starbuck, honestly, with the same amount of skepticism they originally showed, and then having that skepticism set aside when the child was hurt, just as they did here.

Now if they took her down that path and then had her show absolutely no emotionality when she was confronted with Kacey in "Torn," I'd call that sloppy writing. But they have stayed consistent with this plotline (unlike with Apollo's weight), it's just not a choice for that character that *you* agree with.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

And here is where I've got to disagree again, if you can point to any prior character action or decision that would make this particular one consistent then I'll happily concede. But again we've seen Kara in stressful situations and she has always acted with intelligence, courage and profound pragmatism. She has never been a person who reaches out to clutch someone's hand, indeed her personal boundaries seem pretty strict with the exception of sex (which she seems to use as a recreational tool to help relieve stress for the most part). She's offered hugs to friends in celebration or reunion.

Again, if you can show me any evidence that this existed prior to these episodes I'll admit it's just me not liking the direction they're taking her in. But I don't think you're going to find anything that would point even vaguely in this direction. If the writers had given us a little more time for developing Kara's changing behavior, or some evidence that her captivity was having more psychological effects than it seemed to, or even hinted that something during the missing year had caused this about face...then sure, I can start to swallow it.

But you know how it read to me? As a totally inept guy writing a typical female character in this situation.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

Ah. Okay. Let me put it this way: I think, for me, I believe that the *child* pushes some deep-set emotional issues for Kara that nothing else would push. Not even Zak's death. So my evidence, which works for me but which might not work for you, is that scene from uh... season one (I think? yeah, back in the day when we were writing silly Kara/Lee fic at one another) where she breaks down talking about her relationship with her mom.

But what would have made this writing as bad as the Apollo weight plot would be if Kara grabbed Kacey in open arms and swung her around when she first spotted her in this episode. *That* would have pissed me off.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

I think for me it's pressing a big red button about how male writers tend to think female characters are going to act in a situation. If there's one thing I have learned to expect from Kara over the past couple of seasons it's that she very rarely acts like the typical female character. It's something I relate to deeply and fully, and to have the writers betray that made me want to howl with fury.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

. It's something I relate to deeply and fully, and to have the writers betray that made me want to howl with fury.

Maybe it's the part of me that's worked hard for two years to lose a stone that's ticked off at the writers. ;) But the one is pure laziness, the extreme form of Deus ex machina and the other is... hmm, can we agree on not very well thought out characterization?