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[ebonlock]

Ok, I don't care if it's totally unrealistic, the return of Lee's physique has made me happier than anything else this season. OMG the abs, the ABS!!!! I'm sure Jamie was pretty happy to get out of the fat suit as well, but not nearly as happy as I was to see him out of it.

Loved Apollo back in CAG status and Starbuck and Tigh's continued downward spiral. When Adama gave them both an ultimatum I was happy to see Kara actually start to wake up a little, though sad to see Tigh continuing down. I just don't see how that character can survive his guilt, and for a second when he picked up the revolver I really thought he was going to take himself out. Poor Saul, he's going to be looking for a way to kill himself in the days to come, but preferably one that allows him to take out a few Cylons along the way.

I'm guessing Helo is going to stay on in Tigh's position and maybe Gaeta will be bumped up a bit (he's certainly trying to get back into everyone's good graces), but where is Dee? She seems to have completely disappeared.

It was a good, somewhat productive weekend. I never get quite as much done as I hope to, but I did a lot more than I'd really expected to so that's good. My one big crafting project is underway, finally. Got some books taken to BookBuyers and got a fair amount in cash and trade for them. Got several story segments posted and so far mostly rave reviews for Scale of Dragon, Tooth of Wolf. One reader even claims to be an "addict", and another thanked me for posting it in pieces so she'd remember to do things like feed her kids and cats. What better praise could a fanfic author hope for? Still one part in chapter 4 to post tonight and then on to chapter 5, which means I should really finish up the damn end notes. Between that and the final edits moonlightnrain just sent me I think tonight's going to be well spoken for. Hopefully I can get back to crafting tomorrow. Hopefully.

Comments

[esmerel.livejournal.com]

I suspect Dee (like Callie), being a minor character, just isn't going to have screen time at the moment. We've only seen Callie once since fleeing New Caprica, and there's a whole lot of stuff going on.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

I suspect Dee (like Callie), being a minor character, just isn't going to have screen time at the moment. We've only seen Callie once since fleeing New Caprica, and there's a whole lot of stuff going on.

Once on deck, yeah, though who was watching the baby, I wonder? But Dee was the second in command of the Pegasus so she's going to be taking at least a little bit of a demotion to go back to her old job on the Galactica bridge. Not that I think she'll mind, it'd just be nice to see her and Gaeta back in the saddle again, so to speak.

[esmerel.livejournal.com]

I'd just handwaved the baby thing. I'm figuring there's enough idle hands on board that somewhere they've turned a room into a day care. With that many people, there's bound to be a few willing to trade 'be able to stay on galactica' for 'watch the kids'.


And also, demotions - lots of those going around, I'd think. Not by rank, but by the job they're doing. All the pegasus people, plus the people who came back from NC. Helo's been XO, Apollo was made Commander in his own right, now back to being CAG, all those people who were doing those same jobs on another ship, now all back down to one.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

I don't expect most of them mind too much, as it seemed like a lot of people were basically posted to the Pegasus just because. Although I do find it odd that Dee's rank was lieutenant as the ship's XO, you'd think that job (and marrying the commander) would've warranted some sort of promotion :)

[rhi-silverflame.livejournal.com]

though who was watching the baby, I wonder?

timjr and I are entertaining the half-facetious notion that Anders and Seelix (and probably Dee) were babysitting Nicholas, just to explain their absence.

. . . okay, 75 percent facetious.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

timjr and I are entertaining the half-facetious notion that Anders and Seelix (and probably Dee) were babysitting Nicholas, just to explain their absence.

. . . okay, 75 percent facetious.

You know that makes a lot of sense to me, although I have to imagine Anders would be a disastrous babysitter. I mean jeez he couldn't even take care of himself down on New Caprica...

[rhi-silverflame.livejournal.com]

There's a crackfic in there waiting to happen, I'm telling you.

[tersa.livejournal.com]

*laugh* I had a similar thought about Lee when I saw him in the mirror. As for Tigh...they're doing interesting things with him. I honestly didn't even think he'd commit suicide, also didn't think he'd shoot Adama so I wasn't sure *what* he was going to do. Or where he's going. But I was glad that Starbuck started snapping out of it, although it does seem kind of pat that it would be that swift.

I'm really digging the Baltar stuff right now. And what's going to happen to Athena given her jump into infected space.

Yay for good fic reviews!!!!!

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

*laugh* I had a similar thought about Lee when I saw him in the mirror. As for Tigh...they're doing interesting things with him. I honestly didn't even think he'd commit suicide, also didn't think he'd shoot Adama so I wasn't sure *what* he was going to do. Or where he's going. But I was glad that Starbuck started snapping out of it, although it does seem kind of pat that it would be that swift.

Well I can forgive the Kara stuff because Adama was the one who gave her the bitch slapping. She damn near worships him and for him to tell her he thinks of her as a daughter and that she's let him down bigtime is enough to motivate her. Think back to her reaction when she had to admit to him the truth about Zak. And when he came to her bedside and forgave her. If he tells her to get her shit together she will, simple as that.

I'm really digging the Baltar stuff right now. And what's going to happen to Athena given her jump into infected space.

I must admit I squeed a little when Athena was given her call name (one more big nod to the original series there), and I find the whole disease subplot fascinating. I also find it interesting that Moore is again examining this concept of biological warfare and geocide, if you'll recall he did the same thing during the end of the Dominion War. The Federation made one decision, I'm not convinced that the last remaining humans will make the same one, though.

Yay for good fic reviews!!!!!

Yay indeed :)

[esmerel.livejournal.com]

I also suspect Kara will backslide more than once (plot hook!). She's been a screwup before, and there will be aftermath for what she went through with Leoben.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

I know everyone will be horrified by this (aelfsciene and moonlightnrain were), but I could almost see Tigh and Kara falling into bed together at some point. I really could've seen it during their drunken bitter we hate everybody Morale Killer's Club days.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

The abs still really bug me. Let me put it this way: you know how pissed you get when something happens because the plot demands it? Well multiply that times ten when it's because squeeing fangirls demand it. Gah. Utter shallow crap that I thought Moore was better than. If you're going to make a character fat, then you've got to be committed to that taking time to change back. He put the weight on over the course of a year and it came off in what, three weeks? Not even humanly possible. I really can't tolerate bad writing for the sake of The Pretty. Grrrr.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

That's assuming it's only been 3 weeks. The thing is we don't really have a strong idea how much time has passed, indeed they've kept it rather vague this whole season. And I also think it was a little more than a matter of fangirl (and boy) squeeing, rather that Jamie didn't like the makeup/fat suit, it didn't progress the plot any further (indeed, hindered Apollo getting back into CAG duties), and probably cost a mint between the makeup and camera effects to keep it going. If it had been an important plot point beyond "Hey Apollo's gone to hell after too much time in the big chair" I would totally agree with you.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

I was actually being very kind by guessing at three weeks. The rest of the plot makes it clear that very very little time has passed. In fact, I think you pointed out that Tigh is still wearing the same bandage on his eye!

Again, I'm going to say, if you are going to make someone fat, you've got to commit to it or at least write yourself out of it in a way that makes sense. If the fat suit was too expensive/inconvenient for Jamie they still could have had the suit come off over the course of two episodes instead of one and written it so that it was plausible. As it stands, it's weak writing, and that's what I'm truly disappointed by. If it wasn't deserving of the commitment, then the choice shouldn't have been made in the first place.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

As far as I'm concerned it's a small enough issue to warrant a hand wave from me (and on the issue of the bandage on Tigh's eye, I just had a tooth pulled and it's a month now and it's still in the healing process, so I don't think we can judge the time from that), though I still don't like the nonsense they did with Kara in the first 3 eps while you were willing to give that a hand wave. So for me nonsensical (to my mind) character development means a lot more than how quickly Lee lost some weight.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

I didn't see that character development as nonsensical at all, though. Kara's got deep-seated mommy issues and has previously shown that her thick exterior is actually quite thin in places. It made sense that she'd be swayed by this little girl. And it's not out of character, because human beings aren't simple. They may be hard-asses at work and complete softies when it comes to their cats at home, you know?

But having Lee lose weight in 3 weeks (again, I feel I'm being incredibly generous here) seems to boil down to wanting to give his audience something pretty to look at. The fat suit can't really be costing much compared to all the high quality effects in each show.

In other words, I'd rather see him take a character in an unexpected direction and make her more complex and interesting than bend the limits of biology so that he can show come guy shirtless. And what's more, if showing him shirtless was so important, there are believable ways it could have been achieved. Instead it was shallow, lazy, and beneath the level of writing I've come to expect from the show.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

And I would totally disagree, Kara's sudden "maternal instinct" simply showed us a woman who turned her brain off the minute she was presented with a cute child. Nobody with the common sense of a rutabega would have taken anything a Cylon told them at face value. Particularly a Cylon who was obsessively in love with them. The child was in no way the right age to have been Kara's daughter. Kara should have at least had reservations about the kid, waiting until she could take her back to the fleet for DNA tests to confirm the validity of the claim.

Instead she conveniently just doesn't think of any of this and the writers drop in the real mommy at the dramatically appropriate time. If I'm going to call bullshit on anything this season it's that. We've seen traumatized Kara before, but her brains have never turned to mush before, if anything that sort of thing seems to bring out the best in her. To suddenly see her go all a) victim and b) mommy just reinforces every stupid misogynistic fallacy I've ever seen in drama period.

I can't even begin to contemplate that betrayal of the character and the audience in the same landscape as Lee losing some weight. I mean to me that's only slightly more eggregious than having Kara's hair grow like a foot and a half in a year's time. They were using it for a visual short hand in last season's finale, it was no longer necessary this season and they dumped it. No harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

I think the main difference for me is the motivation behind the choices. The motivation for writing Kara as mommy is valid. She had a FUBAR childhood thanks to her own mother and this gave them a chance to explore that further. It makes sense that a child would be a huge trigger for her, no matter the context that child is presented to her. And as a writer it's nice to not make your characters so two dimensional that they don't have a weakness. I still argue that it's nearly two years that have passed since The Farm, if not more, so Kacey is the right age (at least as written, if not the actress who plays her).

But the motivation for dropping Lee's weight in a week is what? I did some research and it turns out Ron Moore has an answer for that in this week's podcast: the writers were lazy. He admits that it's not believable and they had all kinds of plans for Fat Lee, but that during writing meetings the writers were struggling to deal with the issue so they dropped it.

I also noticed that it's been far less than three weeks. When Kara meets Kacey's mom she says "Kacey's been asking to see you for days." Not weeks. So Lee lost a stone in less than a week because the writers were lazy. Stupid. :(

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

And again I have to disagree. If you have Kara bond with the kid, sure, no problem, but just believing entirely that she's her mommy right off the bat? No way.

Let me try to give you an example of why this isn't working for me. Let's take a look at the same character only male, from the original series. Can you honestly tell me that a writer looking at the same character with the same past, the only difference being a Y chromosome would've written that character to have fallen for the 'You're the daddy' line in the same way? No, he would've been skeptical at the least, though probably had several cute scenes with said kid before the truth was revealed.

The difference is she's a woman and therefore they can fall back on ye olde "Maternal Instinct" nonsense. And dude, you're honestly going to tell me you bought into her holding Leoban's hand 'cause she was so upset about Kasey? WTF? If she'd been using it as a plot to get him to lower his guard, fine, sure that's totally Kara. But forgetting herself to that degree with absolutely no payoff from the writers? No, no, no, that just doesn't cut it with me.

Sloppy writing dealing with someone's appearance I can totally swallow, sloppy writing dealing with my favorite character's intellect and personality on a fundamental level? No way.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

I think that you're equating your disagreement with the direction they took the character in with sloppy writing. The fact is a lot of people (not just women) do have maternal and paternal instincts, a lot of people *do* grab someone's, anyone's hand when they are emotionally distraught. I can picture them going that way with the old Starbuck, honestly, with the same amount of skepticism they originally showed, and then having that skepticism set aside when the child was hurt, just as they did here.

Now if they took her down that path and then had her show absolutely no emotionality when she was confronted with Kacey in "Torn," I'd call that sloppy writing. But they have stayed consistent with this plotline (unlike with Apollo's weight), it's just not a choice for that character that *you* agree with.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

And here is where I've got to disagree again, if you can point to any prior character action or decision that would make this particular one consistent then I'll happily concede. But again we've seen Kara in stressful situations and she has always acted with intelligence, courage and profound pragmatism. She has never been a person who reaches out to clutch someone's hand, indeed her personal boundaries seem pretty strict with the exception of sex (which she seems to use as a recreational tool to help relieve stress for the most part). She's offered hugs to friends in celebration or reunion.

Again, if you can show me any evidence that this existed prior to these episodes I'll admit it's just me not liking the direction they're taking her in. But I don't think you're going to find anything that would point even vaguely in this direction. If the writers had given us a little more time for developing Kara's changing behavior, or some evidence that her captivity was having more psychological effects than it seemed to, or even hinted that something during the missing year had caused this about face...then sure, I can start to swallow it.

But you know how it read to me? As a totally inept guy writing a typical female character in this situation.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

Ah. Okay. Let me put it this way: I think, for me, I believe that the *child* pushes some deep-set emotional issues for Kara that nothing else would push. Not even Zak's death. So my evidence, which works for me but which might not work for you, is that scene from uh... season one (I think? yeah, back in the day when we were writing silly Kara/Lee fic at one another) where she breaks down talking about her relationship with her mom.

But what would have made this writing as bad as the Apollo weight plot would be if Kara grabbed Kacey in open arms and swung her around when she first spotted her in this episode. *That* would have pissed me off.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

I think for me it's pressing a big red button about how male writers tend to think female characters are going to act in a situation. If there's one thing I have learned to expect from Kara over the past couple of seasons it's that she very rarely acts like the typical female character. It's something I relate to deeply and fully, and to have the writers betray that made me want to howl with fury.

[moonlightnrain.livejournal.com]

. It's something I relate to deeply and fully, and to have the writers betray that made me want to howl with fury.

Maybe it's the part of me that's worked hard for two years to lose a stone that's ticked off at the writers. ;) But the one is pure laziness, the extreme form of Deus ex machina and the other is... hmm, can we agree on not very well thought out characterization?

[xleste.livejournal.com]

Gaeta deserves a medal.
And Lee...he got his balls back and then his abs back, so I am a happy camper. :)