Quick Lost update

[ebonlock]

First how cute is Sawyer giving Hurley dating tips?

Ok...um...Charlie in a diaper singing, both adorable and quite disturbing. Almost as disturbing as his Catholic iconology vision thingie with Claire and his mom as angels of the lord. Freaky, freaky.

Many points to Charlie for his comment about Kate seeing a horse and nobody batting an eye, but when he starts having visions suddenly he's back on the drugs. Heh.

Interesting that Eko connected the mortal peril that Aaron might be in as spiritual peril, and Charlie tries to convince Claire to baptize the baby. Even more interesting was Locke's look as he watched Kate drag Charlie away. Does he know something? And if so, what?

I'm kind of glad that Locke took the smackfarthing away, I was a little concerned that Charlie was going to break down and start using again. I'd have preferred that Charlie did it himself, and maybe he would have, but I'm not even sure he was convinced he would for a minute there. Could he have found the strength? I dunno'.

"Charlie just feels that he has to save the baby because he can't save himself." Interesting idea, and he may well be on to something there, though it pains me to say it.

And WTF is up with the fire? It's a great distraction, but oh Charlie, if you thought they didn't trust you before. Man.

And that last flashback with Liam is just too tragic. Jesus, he just totally abandoned poor Charlie. The family line just about killed me, yes Charlie, you are family too, and Liam really should've recognized that.

Charlie loses his shit and steals the baby to try to do a forced baptism. Well they certainly can't blame this on the drugs, and now I can't help thinking Charlie's going to become the new persona non grata. A-L gets welcomed back into the fold and now Charlie becomes the new outsider.

Goddamn, seriously sucks to be Charlie. Well maybe he'll get a chance to redeem himself, but I'm seeing it being on the scale of a major self sacrifice, and even then... Maybe the Others will recruit him instead, I've got to say that if I were him I'd be ripe for it at this point. *sigh*

The scene with Jack was nice, it's nice to see that not everybody has completely turned their backs on him. The scene with Eko and Claire was kind of disturbing, though, and just 'cause Eko thinks he's a priest now I'm not so sure the whole baptism thing counted. And, um, doesn't faith play a part too? Shouldn't Claire at least have to kind of believe? Maybe I'm unclear on that whole thing.

Locke putting the statues away in the gun locker...ooh I'm not so sure that's a good idea.

Charlie all alone at the outcast fire...awww.

Oh and "Coming up on Lost", that means another set of repeats, doesn't it? :(

Comments

[cyranocyrano.livejournal.com]

I want to make an icon of Hurley in his robes with the caption 'Come unto me, dudes.' Um. Or something like that.

And, at least as far as I recall, the baptism is a protection and a substitute for faith until the child can be confirmed in the faith when se reaches 'the age of reasoning'.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

Yeah I see how it would work that way for the kid, but what about Claire? I mean unless she really does believe isn't it kind of pointless for her? Her sole reason for doing it seemed to be in order to make sure she and Aaron end up in the same place after death. I don't think that really counts as faith, does it?

[cyranocyrano.livejournal.com]

I don't think so. I am unaware of her current state of grace, but given that she hadn't been baptized before this, my suspicion is that she's entered into a contract that she's not prepared to fulfill. Luckily, I'm not the one who has to make such decisions.(:

[aelfsciene.livejournal.com]

Nooooooot reading until I see this and next week's eps, since I have no way of catching them; I should have thought to set my VCR to recording, but I left in such a rush today that it just didn't happen. Would you maybe be able to dump the eps to tape for me to watch, so I don't have to make you sit through them again?

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

If I have time I'll dump them, if not I can always go in the bedroom and work on my computer while you watch any eps you missed. But it looks like next week is going to be a repeat anyway so you'll probably only miss one.

[tersa.livejournal.com]

Last night's episode semi-restored some warm feelings for Charlie, but yeah, he seriously screwed himself over.

Coming out of the Catholic background that I do, I had a slightly different reaction to Charlie's "visions", the conclusion that Aaron needed to be baptized, and Locke's reaction. I have no basis for this other than 'hunch', but my impression is that Aaron needed to be baptized because he was otherwise an at-risk soul on Evil Island, and that Locke may have not wanted Aaron to be 'washed clean of his sin' for some reason. I realize that puts a definite Christian bent on what's going on on the island, but so did doing baptism at all.

Also, I think Eko *is* actually a priest right now. He may have been faking it in his flashback, but just the way he is now, on the island, I think he had a true conversion between the plane leaving Nigeria and his landing on the island. Either that, or he's just the world's best actor.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

I have no basis for this other than 'hunch', but my impression is that Aaron needed to be baptized because he was otherwise an at-risk soul on Evil Island, and that Locke may have not wanted Aaron to be 'washed clean of his sin' for some reason. I realize that puts a definite Christian bent on what's going on on the island, but so did doing baptism at all.

Do you suppose this relates to Ethan and the Others in general? I mean he did kidnap Claire, and the assumption was that he was after the baby. Then there's the whole psychic prediction before Claire even left Australia. But yeah I think Locke really does see his spiritual beliefs now centered on the island and its powers. He may have had them tested with Boone, but ultimately I think he's still island shaman.

Also, I think Eko *is* actually a priest right now. He may have been faking it in his flashback, but just the way he is now, on the island, I think he had a true conversion between the plane leaving Nigeria and his landing on the island. Either that, or he's just the world's best actor.

Well I think Eko sees himself as a priest, and yeah I think he's made a true conversion, but even if I really firmly believe in the Catholic church and god and carry around a Jesus stick I'm not automatically a priest. At least not in the eyes of Mother Church. He does make a rather fetching John the Baptist, though, doesn't he?

I'm also wondering if this story signals that Charlie is now going to become something of a seer himself. I think continuing his prophetic visions in Catholic iconology would be a fascinating way for the story to go.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I wonder a little about the Christian nod we seem to be getting. Baptism makes Aaron okay. Eko is a priest and is consequently immune to the Evil Smoke Monster(tm).

Hsm.

That was me

[forkmonkey.livejournal.com]

Ooops, that was me, Forkmonkey, by the by.

-F

Re: That was me

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

Yeah it gave me that odd little uncomfortable feeling that I remember getting when Xena started going all Christianized too.

[cyranocyrano.livejournal.com]

As far as the Mother Church is concerned, didn't his brother write up his credentials and sign his paperwork, leaving only the belief and the Jesus stick missing/

[tersa.livejournal.com]

As far as the Mother Church is concerned, didn't his brother write up his credentials and sign his paperwork, leaving only the belief and the Jesus stick missing/

Yes, he might be a priest in the eyes of the Church and the world...but at least in my point, I think he has *become* a priest in fact and not just in name.

[cyranocyrano.livejournal.com]

Right, but it sounded like E was asking about it in a technical sense, while you and I have been discussing it more in a metaphysical sense. (: And I've got to say, if he has come to Jesus then he may want to work on his theology just a little.

In unrelated news: "You All Every Botty" may be the cutest sell-out in television history.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

In unrelated news: "You All Every Botty" may be the cutest sell-out in television history.

That is so an icon that needs to be made.

[tersa.livejournal.com]

Do you suppose this relates to Ethan and the Others in general? I mean he did kidnap Claire, and the assumption was that he was after the baby. Then there's the whole psychic prediction before Claire even left Australia. But yeah I think Locke really does see his spiritual beliefs now centered on the island and its powers. He may have had them tested with Boone, but ultimately I think he's still island shaman....

I'm also wondering if this story signals that Charlie is now going to become something of a seer himself. I think continuing his prophetic visions in Catholic iconology would be a fascinating way for the story to go.

Yes, I think it may relate to Ethan and the Others in general, and also Locke's standing as island shaman....but I will elaborate my thoughts from last night.

When the whole baptism issue came up, my immediate thought was as I said before "unbaptized soul on Evil Island", and noted that it was probably very likely that Alex, Danielle's daughter, was unbaptized, too. tavella (correctly, IMO) pointed out that leading down the trail that the Others are after the unbaptized is probably a little farfetched because what are the odds that so many of the Tailies taken were unbaptized, etc....but I still think there is *something* to it, perhaps just not that simple.

My strong feeling when I saw the look on Locke's face, coupled with the music, is that he strongly disagreed with the idea of Aaron being baptized. Because he is the island shaman? Because he opposes Christianity? Because he is secretly doing the island's bidding, and baptising Aaron would thwart the island's will? I don't know. But there was, at that moment, a clear feeling to me of the Christian vs. Natualism/Wicca/Pagan moment (Which, BTW, it would make me sad if that's the direction they're really going, so I'm hoping that this is just the *framework* for their story and not the real conflict)

But that also raised another interesting question in me that would actually run counter to the fear of the Christian symbolism that pervaded the show this episode: I'm of the opinion, right now, that the strong Christian overtones of the show in "The 23rd Psalm" (Eko) and "Fire and Water" (Charlie) are not because that's the direction the show, overall is going, but because those two episodes were centered around characters who strongly identify themselves with the Christian faith (Eko, who may or may not be a real-in-his-heart-priest and not just in name only, and former alter boy Charlie). That we saw the story in these two episodes through the *lens* of Christianity which is their perspective.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Charlie's visions do go the direction of being another seer, and one of the things I kind of liked about this episode (and I haven't seen mentioned anywhere) was how it felt like it paralleled Claire's dreams about Aaron in her one episode last season.

More on Locke

[tersa.livejournal.com]

Oh, one thing I forgot in that long essay:

Another reason I think there is more going on there with Locke's reaction to Charlie's dreams and wanting to get Aaron baptized was the kind of 'violence' to which he opposed him. Just like Charlie pointed out, Locke was all helpful and genial and stuff when he was trying to get Charlie off the smack, but then got all smackdown on him...but the smackdown started *after* 'baptism' started getting batted around.

Another reason? Locke punching Charlie. I mean, that was a violent reaction in both the metaphorical and physical sense. I think it was out of character for Locke, who for all his mighty white hunter, has been very Old Wiseman on the Hill, and not physically involved with any of the interpersonal altercations among the survivors. This time, he not only got physically involved, he initiated. I think he was lashing out against someone he now views as a serious threat, and I don't think it's just the superficial threat of "stealing Aaron", but the threat of what Charlie stands for and was espousing all episode.

Re: More on Locke

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

Another reason? Locke punching Charlie. I mean, that was a violent reaction in both the metaphorical and physical sense. I think it was out of character for Locke, who for all his mighty white hunter, has been very Old Wiseman on the Hill, and not physically involved with any of the interpersonal altercations among the survivors. This time, he not only got physically involved, he initiated. I think he was lashing out against someone he now views as a serious threat, and I don't think it's just the superficial threat of "stealing Aaron", but the threat of what Charlie stands for and was espousing all episode.

I dunno', see I would say that Locke still fit with the Old Wiseman persona, just the kind you'd see in a Japanese or Hong Kong film. Yeah, he'll impart his wisdom on you, but push him too far and he'll kick your damn ass. Locke didn't do anything that would permanently hurt Charlie, and if he hadn't acted when he did maybe somebody else would've stepped up and done him far more harm.

[ebonlock.livejournal.com]

My strong feeling when I saw the look on Locke's face, coupled with the music, is that he strongly disagreed with the idea of Aaron being baptized. Because he is the island shaman? Because he opposes Christianity? Because he is secretly doing the island's bidding, and baptising Aaron would thwart the island's will? I don't know. But there was, at that moment, a clear feeling to me of the Christian vs. Natualism/Wicca/Pagan moment (Which, BTW, it would make me sad if that's the direction they're really going, so I'm hoping that this is just the *framework* for their story and not the real conflict)

Well that would only necessarily be the case if the "island's will" (for lack of a better term) matched that of the Others, which I'm not convinced of. Certainly I don't think Locke is working towards the same goals as the Others. I think the island itself and its will would be more neutral in nature, so if Locke is seen as a sort of shaman/pagan stand in he's in league with a natural, but neutral order. The Others may be "evil" and the survivors "good", but I'm convinced that neither group necessarily speaks for the island itself.